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Question:
I'm wondering what you think about Universal Reconciliation.
- I am wondering what you think about Universal Reconciliation.
Answer:
(click here to see the answer)
1. Dear Chris
2. I used to have serious problems with universal reconciliation. When I lived in California, I could not sign a Grace church's doctrinal statement until I was able to answer my wife's uncle, who had become a UR. He told me about his position, and it troubled me greatly. It wasn't until I learned Greek that I was able to see the inconsistencies it their position.
3. Now, I understand that the future destiny of man falls into three controversial categories: the eternal torment of the unrighteous and the eternal bliss of the righteous, which is the position I now believe; the annihilation of the unrighteous and the immortality of the righteous, which has some serious issues that a sincere Christian most also answer; and the problem at hand, universal reconciliation of all.
4. I will attempt to present what the Scriptures show about the universal reconciliation of all and the asnwers as I see them.
5. The website that you referred me to is allied with the Concordant Publishing Concern, which is the publishing arm of their movement in America. I will be quote their material to show the logic and scriptural evidence supporting their belief. These works rely on the concordant method of study to show the usage of a word in the original Hebrew, Chaldee, and Greek Scriptures.
6. The Greek words aionios, the adjective, eternal, and aion, the noun, age, are expressed by the words eonios and eon. With reference to the noun, using references such as "God made the eons" (Heb 1:2), "before the eons" (1 Co 2:7), and "before eonion times" (2 Ti 1:9), one author proves there was a time before the ages existed. He shows the ages end by using these references: "the end of the eons" (Heb 9:26), "the ends of the eons" (1 Co 10:11), "the end of the eon" (Mat 24:3) [Eonion, Everlasting or Age-Lasting?, Grace H. Todd & Joseph E. Kirk, 15570 W. Mr. Knochhaven Rd., Canyon Country, Ca.: Concordant Publishing Concern, n.d., p. 34. A.E. Mr. Knoch, All in All, The Goal of the Universe, same, 1978.]
7. They proceed by the same method to show that the adjective cannot mean eternal. They conclude, "It is an axiom of grammar that derivatives cannot have a greater force than the parent word." [Eonion, p. 30.] They show that this adjective can apply to God because He is the "eonion" God. "He made the eons." They say that when this word is applied to people it means "they live for the eons," [Ibid., p. 31.] and "punishment is during the eons, not beyond them." [Ibid., p. 32.] They maintain everyone will be made alive in Christ when the lake of fire is abolished. "Not one will be left out. 'All shall be made alive' (1 Co 15:22)." [Ibid., p. 44.]
8. They say there will be condemnation and wrath for many during the eons (Rom 2:1-16; Rev 20:11-15). But at the end of the eons, all will be justified (Rom 5:18,19); all will receive the life of Christ (1 Co 15:20-28); all will be reconciled to God (Col 1:20); all will be subjected to God the Father (1 Co 15:25-28); and God will be All in All (1 Co 15:28). [Ibid., p. 37.]
9. Mr. Knoch, who is now dead, affirmed that: The crowning and convincing evidence as to the limitations of "eon" is presented by the fact that, in the Greek, there are three distinct phrases used by the Holy Spirit in which one or more eons are said to be derived from another eon or eons. These phrases are "the eon of the eon," "the eon of the eons," or "the eons of the eons." In English the little word "of" is very indefinite. It has been suggested that in this case the thought is "ages tumbled upon ages" or "ages succeeded by ages." But the more precise Greek will not bear such a loose paraphrase. If "on" had been meant, why was not the preposition epi used? The relation which is sought to be expressed here by "of" is the genitive case, which points out that from which anything proceeds. We may, therefore, expand "of" into "derived from" or a similar phrase. [All in All, p. 177. I changed all capped words to lower case words.]
10. "The eons of the eons" is explained thoroughly. He shows that the word aion first appears in the accusative, showing "what is under consideration," and then in the genitive case, "whence these eons proceed." [Ibid., 178.] He shows where these expressions occur most frequently and says, "A glance will show that it describes the last two as being the result and fruit of all those which precede them." [Ibid., 179.] This would be a tenable position if Scripture or grammar supported it, but there is none. This is an interpretation based on very narrow grammatical ground which in itself is untenable.
11. The translation of the genitive/ablative case form is quite complex. Brooks and Winbery, Syntax of New Testament Greek, University Press of America, 1979, pp. 8-31, list twenty-two uses, with many subheadings. In light of such complexity, what must we do to arrive at the correct translation? What do other grammarians say?
12. The modern grammarians agree that the function of the genitive is to describe and define. It acts very much like an adjective. William Chamberlain, An Exegetical Grammar of the Greek New Testament, New York: MacMillan, 1941, p. 29., wrote "The genitive case . . . is primarily the 'describing' case. Its function is adjectival. In fact, comparative grammar shows that this usage is older than the adjective. The name is misleading, for it means 'generative', 'productive.' A better name has been suggested, . . . the case which gives the genus or kind. Regardless of its name, it is the descriptive case. This negates Mr. Knoch's explanation.
13. Mr. Knoch deals with the other two phrases in the same scholarly and philosophical manner. But, unfortunately, he appears to lack an understanding of Greek syntax.
14. In addition to this he asked, if aion means eternity, why are there eternities of eternities? On the other hand, if aion means a long period of time, then the adjective aionios must only mean a long period of time. The author shows that even the compound use of aion in the plural ei" tou" aiwna" twn aiwnwn does not mean eternity. He asks when these words are "applied to the length of the reign of our Lord. Is He to reign 'forever,' or is He to reign 'until'?" He compares Rev 11:15 with 1 Co 15:25: Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!" 1 Co 15:25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
15. He concluded "all sovereignty and authority and power will be nullified at the consummation (1 Co 15:24). Therefore, even though it says, "He shall reign forever and ever", Mr. Knoch believed His reigning will end when He turns the kingdom over to the Father. He believed Christ "appeared at the commencement of a period which will continue until the end of the eons." [All in All, p.176.] His reign would end when "The conclusion of the Eons" took place as stated in Heb 9:26, "He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages (sunteleia twn aiwnwn), He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself." He then explains, "Now the fact that Christ's reign comes to an end, that He will take a place subordinate, may at first thought, seem to be derogatory. But the exact opposite is the truth." He only has to reign until "He brings the universe to a perfect state of loving subjection". [Ibid., p. 180.]
16. In the Universal Reconciliationist's view, the election and predestination of man also proves that all will be saved. If God chooses some individuals to salvation and chooses not to save others, and those not chosen are lost, how would we interpret 1 Timothy 2:4, "who desires (qelei) all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth"? Mr. Knoch wrote, "We should not presume to place God on a level with the wretched slave of Romans seven who pathetically laments his impotence, 'for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.' What God wills He is able to perform." His conclusion is: All will be saved. After all, God "works all things according to the counsel of His will" (Eph 1:11). Mr. Knoch shows election and predestination are "precious portions of God's truth", and he does not maintain that "judgment and condemnation" are done away. He also believes, "the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men" (Rom 1:18), "However too much condemnation and punishment is just as unrighteous as too little." [Eonion, p. 41.]
17. The logical conclusion of all these ideas is presented in this way: "It will be evident, then, that the presence of sin in the universe is not a mistake on God's side, but a part of His plan for reaching the hearts of His creatures. The moment that we seek to shift the responsibility for sin from His shoulders to that of any of His creatures, whether Satan or Adam, then we do indeed involve Him in sin. It is God's plan from beginning to end and man does not and cannot add to or subtract from it." [Knoch, Evil Its Origin, Purpose and End, same, p. 61.]
18. We must give them their due. I agree that Scripture shows an age ends and ages end. But we should not conclude from the evidence the Concordant Movement presents in its wealth of literature that there will be a time when all ages will cease. We should not agree that the lake of fire, the second death, will be done away and all, including Satan, will be made alive. Only after we study the Scriptures can we evaluate this material and make a decision.
19. Consider Heb 9:25,26, "not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another - 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages (sunteleia twn aiwnwn), He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
20. We can see that Christ put away sin at the completion of the ages. But according to Eph 2:7, "that in the ages to come (toi" aiwsi toi" epercomenoi") He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus", there are still ages to come. Therefore, what Heb 9:25,26 shows is that Christ was manifested at the completion of at least two ages to put away sin. It does not say all the ages end. This passage should not be used to try to prove that.
21. In 1 Co 10:11, Paul states that, "things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come." If the ends of the ages had come on the Corinthians two thousand years ago, and Christ, once, at the end of the ages, put away sin, then, when did they end? The time of the end of all ages could not be at the time of Christ or the Corinthians because of the statement in Eph 2:7. Universal Reconciliationists must show that all the future ages end. They have not done that.
22. They say all are made alive in Christ because 1 Co 15:22 says, "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive." Now, all men are descendants of Adam. Therefore, all are or were in Adam at one time. But, all are not in Christ. Only those who have trusted in Christ are in Christ. We were all in Adam by nature, but all are not in Christ. We were all dead, but only those in Christ will be made alive.
23. When will the events of 1 Co 15:23-28 take place? It tells us: "But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed (katargeitai) is death. 27 For "He has put all things under His feet." But when He says "all things are put under Him," it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
24. Universal Reconciliationists believe this is when the last age ends. They believe the death spoken of here is the lake of fire. They believe all will be made alive when the lake of fire is abolished. When we look closely at this passage written to members of the body of Christ, 1 Co 15:23-28, we can see that verse 23 refers to Christ's resurrection and our rapture. Verses 24-28a refer to the end of the millennium when all other authority is subdued. Verse 28b refers to the future ages of ages which will not end.
25. To substantiate this, we see that death is annulled (katargeitai) in the lake of fire in Rev 20:14, "Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." If there is any doubt about the abolishment of death, Rev 21:4 states, "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, [Lit. "the death will be no longer" (o qanato" ouk estai eti).] nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away." Yet Rev 21:8 shows the lake of fire is still in existence, "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." And there is no intimation that it will be destroyed.
26. In Rev 21, after death and hades are cast into the lake of fire, the New Jerusalem comes down, and in Rev 22:5, it says that "they shall reign forever and ever" (ei" tou" aiwna" twn aiwnwn, unto the ages of the ages). Another point should be raised here. If the lake of fire will be destroyed, then, all in it would become alive in the Universal Reconciliationist's system of theology. Then we would again have death and hades and would be no better off than before Rev 20:14 since both death and hades were cast into the lake of fire.
27. When considering the compound usage of aion it is most interesting to notice that the word does not appear in its compound form except in the Septuagint, the New Testament, and the church fathers. I have consulted lexicons, papyri, and secular writers in this quest. The compound use of the word appears to be a Hebraism. Hebrew expressed the superlative in a number of ways. "Absolute superlativeness is expressed variously . . . or by repetition of the word expressing the quality . . . holy of holies = most holy." [A.B. Davidson, An Introductory Hebrew Grammar, revised by J.E. McFadyen, Wilmington: A.P. & A. n.d., p. 161.] Here are examples of the compound of the Hebrew word olam. 1 Chr 29:10; Neh 9:5; Isa 34:10; Jer 7:7; 25:5; Dan 2:20; 7:18. Olam is also compounded with another word, ad, which means perpetuity. Further, another word, nehtsakh, which means perpetuity, is found with olam and also compounded with itself. Just one example will show how the Hebrew influenced the Septuagint. Daniel 7:18 has kai paralhyontai thn basileian agioi uyistou kai kaqexousi thn basileian ew" tou aiwno" kai ew" tou aiwno" twn aiwnwn. The NKJV translated it, "But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom, and possess the kingdom forever, even forever and ever."
28. Other examples of using compounds to express the superlative are abundant. The following verses contain the compound in both Hebrew and the Septuagint: "Holy of holies" (Ex 26:33), "Song of Songs" (S of S 1:1), "God of gods" (Psa 136:2), "Lord of lords" (Psa 136:3), "unto all generations" (Ex 3:15), "exceeding deep" (Ecc 7:24). There is no true genitive case in Hebrew. Instead, Hebrew has a construction called the construct state, but each of these phrases, as we found in the Septuagint, has the genitive case. [Ibid., p. 58. "While there is now no external indication of the nomin. [nominative] or the accus. [accusative], the genitive relation (e.g. the palace of the king) is indicated by closely connecting the governing and governed words in a way which demands attention, as it has no analogy in the corresponding Greek or Latin construction. The first word (here palace), which is considered as dependent, is said to be in the construct state or in construction; the second word (king), which is not dependent, is said to be in the absolute state.]
29. Now Mr. Knoch's own words about the genitive case were that it "points out that from which anything proceeds. We may, therefore, expand 'of' into 'derived from'" [All in All, p. 177.]. If Mr. Knoch were right, this would mean that the holy place was derived from the holies, not that it is the most holy place; Solomon's song is derived from songs; God is derived from gods, not that He is almighty God; He as Lord is derived from lords; one generation is derived from many; and finally, that depth is derived from depth. Bad grammar and syntax lead to poor theology. But I must add, we are all guilty of this to some degree.
30. This Hebraism is apparent in its influence on the Septuagint and the apostles in their use of aion. True, aion many times means age, an extensive period of time; but when it is influenced by the underlying Hebrew superlative, we find the word in the compound means eternity.
31. The Universal Reconciliationist says Christ's reign will come to an end when He gives the perfected kingdom to the Father. He maintains Christ will only reign until this time. Since Rev 11:15 says, "He shall reign forever and ever", which is, literally, "for the eons of the eons", this would mean the period of time expressed by "the eons of the eons" would actually end. A close examination of the word "till", achri, in 1 Co 15:25 shows a variation of meaning which must be determined by context. Acts 2:29 shows David's sepulcher was with them "unto" that day. Did it depart after that day? When Paul used "until this day" in Acts 23:1, was he contemplating a change in his "conscience before God"? In Acts 26:22, when Paul continued "unto" that day, was he going to stop witnessing? In Rom 8:22, did the creation stop groaning right after those words were penned? Finally, 2 Co 3:14,15 shows the veil remained "until" that day, and "even unto this day." Looking at this situation from a different point, the word translated "end" in 1 Co 15:24, "then comes the end," is the same Greek word, telos, found in Luke 1:33, "He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end." If His kingdom does not end, what does end? The millennial kingdom ends. All other rule and authority ends, including Satan's power and the power of death. After the last enemy is annulled, then God the Son is subject to God the Father. After this, the Scriptures show the Lamb and God as possessing the same throne: Rev 22:1,3 "And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him."
32. To show the ages have not ended, the paragraph ends with these words in Rev 22:5: "There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever." I believe we can now say the compound use of aion means forever.
33. Even with these solutions to the problems presented by our Universal Reconciliation brethren, the logic of their position becomes overwhelming if their view of election is true. However, if this premise is found to also lack support from the Scriptures, the whole superstructure falls. Most Calvinistic theology books that I have read say that certain portions of Scripture about God use metaphors which really mean the opposite of what they seem to mean. Now, biblical metaphors are important. They help us feel that love toward God which He desires. Some metaphors show us God as a loving husband. Others show us Him as a father. But in general, as we look at God's character in the Bible, I think you'll agree with me, God's Character has been besmirched by these zealous theologians.
34. I want to balance the faulty emphasis they make. Here are two selections representative of many. The first is from Calvin: "God . . . determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or death. [Institutes v. 2, p. 206] . . . Now, since the arrangement of all things is in the hand of God, since to him belongs the disposal of life and death, he arranges all things by his sovereign counsel, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction. . . . [further] he foresees the things which are to happen, simply because he has decreed that they are so to happen. [Institutes v. 2 p. 231]
35. The second is from Berkhof. "God . . . is devoid of all change, not only in His Being, but also in His perfections, and in His purposes and promises. [Because of this], He is . . . free from all . . . growth or decay in His Being or perfections. His knowledge and plans, His moral principles and volitions remain forever the same. Even reason teaches us that no change is possible in God, since a change is either for better or for worse. . . . there is no change in His . . . attributes, His purpose, His motives of action, or His promises. . . . His repenting, changing His intention, and altering His relation to sinners . . . is only an anthropopathic way of speaking. In reality the change is not in God, but in man and in man's relations to God. [Systematic Theology, pp. 58,59]
36. Who could love a God like that? We could, because He would make us. What pleasure would anyone receive from that kind of love. Certainly not our glorious God. If we were like Calvin and Berkhof's descriptions, He could not be touched by our afflictions. He could not agonize over Israel as He did in Hos 11:7-9: "My people are bent on backsliding from Me. Though they call to the Most High, none at all exalt Him. 8 How can I give you up, Ephraim? How can I hand you over, Israel? How can I make you like Admah? How can I set you like Zeboiim? My heart churns within Me; My sympathy is stirred. 9 I will not execute the fierceness of My anger; I will not again destroy Ephraim. For I am God, and not man, The Holy One in your midst; And I will not come with terror."
37. What does the Bible really say about God's immutability. The first time God changed was in Gen 6:4-7: "There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. 5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the LORD repented [Heb root nacham] that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the LORD said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I repent [Heb root nacham]] that I have made them."
38. Not only did God change His mind in Gen 6, but, because He is compassionate and gracious, God wants to repent. Jer 26:3,13,19 shows us this principle clearly. Read it. God is speaking: "Perhaps everyone will listen and turn from his evil way, that I may repent concerning the calamity which I purpose to bring on them because of the evil of their doings. 13 Now therefore, amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the LORD your God; then the LORD will repent concerning the doom that He has pronounced against you. 19 Did Hezekiah king of Judah and all Judah ever put him to death? Did he not fear the LORD and seek the LORD's favor? And the Lord repented concerning the doom which He had pronounced against them. But we are doing great evil against ourselves."
39. Further, we can see in Psa 106:43-45, He repents because of His compassion: "Many times He delivered them; But they rebelled in their counsel, and were brought low for their iniquity. 44 Nevertheless He regarded their affliction, when He heard their cry; 45 And for their sake He remembered His covenant, and repented according to the multitude of His mercies."
40. We find a similar idea in Joel 2:12-14: "Now, therefore, says the LORD, turn to Me with all your heart, with fasting, with weeping, and with mourning. 13 So rend your heart, and not your garments; Return to the LORD your God, for He is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness; And He repents from doing harm. 14 Who knows if He will turn and repent, and leave a blessing behind Him - a grain offering and a drink offering for the LORD your God?"
41. Further, He lays down the ground rules for repentance in Jer 18:1-11: "The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying: 2 Arise and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause you to hear My words. 3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and there he was, making something at the wheel. 4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter; so he made it again into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to make. 5 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying: 6 O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter? says the LORD. Look, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel! 7 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will repent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will repent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it. 11 Now therefore, speak to the men of Judah and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus says the LORD: Behold, I am fashioning a disaster and devising a plan against you. Return now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good."
42. In addition, God responded to prayer after He displayed His wrath before Moses in Ex 32:9-14: And the LORD said to Moses, "I have seen this people, and indeed it is a stiff-necked people! 10 Now therefore, let Me alone, that My wrath may burn hot against them and I may consume them. And I will make of you a great nation." 11 Then Moses pleaded with the LORD his God, and said: "LORD, why does Your wrath burn hot against Your people whom You have brought out of the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand? 12 Why should the Egyptians speak, and say, 'He brought them out to harm them, to kill them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth'? Turn from Your fierce wrath, and repent from this harm to Your people. 13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Your servants, to whom You swore by Your own self, and said to them, 'I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven; and all this land that I have spoken of I give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it forever.'" 14 So the LORD repented from the harm which He said He would do to His people.
43. Amos also prayed in Amos 7:1-6: "Thus the Lord GOD showed me: Behold, He formed locust swarms at the beginning of the late crop; indeed it was the late crop after the king's mowings. 2 And so it was, when they had finished eating the grass of the land, that I said: "O Lord GOD, forgive, I pray! Oh, that Jacob may stand, For he is small!" 3 So the LORD repented concerning this. It shall not be, said the LORD. 4 Thus the Lord GOD showed me: Behold, the Lord GOD called for conflict by fire, and it consumed the great deep and devoured the territory. 5 Then I said: O Lord GOD, cease, I pray! Oh, that Jacob may stand, For he is small! 6 So the LORD repented concerning this. This also shall not be, said the Lord GOD."
44. Finally, God doesn't want us to be like programmed robots or serve him against our will like a horse or mule that must be harnessed. God wants us to serve Him willingly according to Psa 32:8-11: "I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will guide you with My eye. 9 Do not be like the horse or like the mule, which have no understanding, which must be harnessed with bit and bridle, else they will not come near you. 10 Many sorrows shall be to the wicked; But he who trusts in the LORD, mercy shall surround him. 11 Be glad in the LORD and rejoice, you righteous; And shout for joy, all you upright in heart!"
45. When the Lord said that He repented, we must take it at face value. We must not twist it because we have a theology that it doesn't fit. If we cannot take the Scriptures at face value when it is explicit, how can we ever hope to understand any portion of it? When "the Lord repented from the harm which He said He would do to His people (Ex 32:14), can we believe the Scripture or say God did not write through Moses what He meant? The Scriptures are filled with passages which show He doesn't know the future actions of free agents; He can be grieved; He can be surprised; and He can repent of actions that He said He was going to do. No, the God of Calvin, Berkhoff, and Mr. Knoch does not exist in the Bible. Our God is awesome in His love, compassion, and care for us. Our righteous God reconciled us to Him. But, if we do not believe Him and the message of salvation that He has given, there remains only the lake of fire - forever!
46. Many do not believe the word nacham really means repent. Here are all of the repent verses that refer to God.
47. Gen 6:4-9 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. 5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord repented [it repented the LORD] that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I repent that I have made them. 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. 9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God.
48. Ex 32:9-14 And the Lord said to Moses, I have seen this people, and indeed it is a stiff-necked people! 10 Now therefore, let Me alone, that My wrath may burn hot against them and I may consume them. And I will make of you a great nation. 11 Then Moses pleaded with the Lord his God, and said: Lord, why does Your wrath burn hot against Your people whom You have brought out of the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand? 12 Why should the Egyptians speak, and say, `He brought them out to harm them, to kill them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from Your fierce wrath, and repent from this harm to Your people. 13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Your servants, to whom You swore by Your own self, and said to them, I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven; and all this land that I have spoken of I give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it forever. 14 So the Lord repented from the harm which He said He would do to His people.
49. Jud 2:18-21 And when the Lord raised up judges for them, the Lord was with the judge and delivered them out of the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge; for the Lord repented because of their groaning because of those who oppressed them and harassed them. 19 And it came to pass, when the judge was dead, that they reverted and behaved more corruptly than their fathers, by following other gods, to serve them and bow down to them. They did not cease from their own doings nor from their stubborn way. 20 Then the anger of the Lord was hot against Israel; and He said, Because this nation has transgressed My covenant which I commanded their fathers, and has not heeded My voice, 21 I also will no longer drive out before them any of the nations which Joshua left when he died.
50. 1 Sa 15:11-29,35 I repent that I have set up Saul as king, for he has turned back from following Me, and has not performed My commandments. And it grieved Samuel, and he cried out to the Lord all night. 12 So when Samuel rose early in the morning to meet Saul, it was told Samuel, saying, Saul went to Carmel, and indeed, he set up a monument for himself; and he has gone on around, passed by, and gone down to Gilgal. 13 Then Samuel went to Saul, and Saul said to him, Blessed are you of the Lord! I have performed the commandment of the Lord. 14 But Samuel said, What then is this bleating of the sheep in my ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear? 15 And Saul said, They have brought them from the Amalekites; for the people spared the best of the sheep and the oxen, to sacrifice to the Lord your God; and the rest we have utterly destroyed. 16 Then Samuel said to Saul, Be quiet! And I will tell you what the Lord said to me last night. And he said to him, Speak on. 17 So Samuel said, When you were little in your own eyes, were you not head of the tribes of Israel? And did not the Lord anoint you king over Israel? 18 Now the Lord sent you on a mission, and said, 'Go, and utterly destroy the sinners, the Amalekites, and fight against them until they are consumed. 19 Why then did you not obey the voice of the Lord? Why did you swoop down on the spoil, and do evil in the sight of the Lord? 20 And Saul said to Samuel, But I have obeyed the voice of the Lord, and gone on the mission on which the Lord sent me, and brought back Agag king of Amalek; I have utterly destroyed the Amalekites. 21 But the people took of the plunder, sheep and oxen, the best of the things which should have been utterly destroyed, to sacrifice to the Lord your God in Gilgal. 22 Then Samuel said: Has the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, As in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, And to heed than the fat of rams. 23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the Lord, He also has rejected you from being king. 24 Then Saul said to Samuel, I have sinned, for I have transgressed the commandment of the Lord and your words, because I feared the people and obeyed their voice. 25 Now therefore, please pardon my sin, and return with me, that I may worship the Lord. 26 But Samuel said to Saul, I will not return with you, for you have rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord has rejected you from being king over Israel. 27 And as Samuel turned around to go away, Saul seized the edge of his robe, and it tore. 28 So Samuel said to him, The Lord has torn the kingdom of Israel from you today, and has given it to a neighbor of yours, who is better than you. 29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent. For He is not a man, that He should repent. 35 And Samuel went no more to see Saul until the day of his death. Nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul, and the Lord repented that He had made Saul king over Israel.
51. 2 Sa 24:1,9-16 Again the anger of the Lord was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. [See 1 Chr 21:1 below.] 9 Then Joab gave the sum of the number of the people to the king. And there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men who drew the sword, and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men. 10 And David's heart condemned him after he had numbered the people. So David said to the Lord, I have sinned greatly in what I have done; but now, I pray, O Lord, take away the iniquity of Your servant, for I have done very foolishly. 11 Now when David arose in the morning, the word of the Lord came to the prophet Gad, David's seer, saying, 12 Go and tell David, Thus says the Lord: I offer you three things; choose one of them for yourself, that I may do it to you. 13 So Gad came to David and told him; and he said to him, Shall seven years of famine come to you in your land? Or shall you flee three months before your enemies, while they pursue you? Or shall there be three days plague in your land? Now consider and see what answer I should take back to Him who sent me. 14 And David said to Gad, I am in great distress. Please let us fall into the hand of the Lord, for His mercies are great; but do not let me fall into the hand of man. 15 So the Lord sent a plague upon Israel from the morning till the appointed time. From Dan to Beersheba seventy thousand men of the people died. 16 And when the angel stretched out His hand over Jerusalem to destroy it, the Lord repented from the destruction, and said to the angel who was destroying the people, It is enough; now restrain your hand. And the angel of the Lord was by the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.
52. 1 Ch 21:1,15 Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel. 15 And God sent an angel to Jerusalem to destroy it. As he was destroying, the Lord looked and repented of the disaster, and said to the angel who was destroying, It is enough; now restrain your hand. And the angel of the Lord stood by the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite.
53. Psa 90:13 Return, O Lord! How long? And [repent concerning] Your servants.
54. Psa 106:45 And for their sake He remembered His covenant and repented according to the multitude of His mercies.
55. Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn and the heavens above be black because I have spoken. I have purposed and will not repent, nor will I turn back from it.
56. Jer 15:6 You have forsaken Me, says the Lord, You have gone backward. Therefore I will stretch out My hand against you and destroy you; I am weary of repenting!
57. Jer 18:7-12 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will repent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will repent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it. 11 Now therefore, speak to the men of Judah and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus says the Lord: Behold, I am fashioning a disaster and devising a plan against you. Return now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good. 12 And they said, That is hopeless! So we will walk according to our own plans, and we will every one obey the dictates of his evil heart.
58. Jer 20:16 And let that man be like the cities Which the Lord overthrew, and did not repent; Let him hear the cry in the morning and the shouting at noon.
59. Jer 26:2,3,13,18 Thus says the Lord: Stand in the court of the Lords house, and speak to all the cities of Judah, which come to worship in the Lords house, all the words that I command you to speak to them. Do not diminish a word. 3 Perhaps everyone will listen and turn from his evil way, that I may repent concerning the calamity which I purpose to bring on them because of the evil of their doings. 13 Now therefore, amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the Lord your God; then the Lord will repent concerning the doom that He has pronounced against you. 18 Micah of Moresheth prophesied in the days of Hezekiah king of Judah, and spoke to all the people of Judah, saying, Thus says the Lord of hosts: Zion shall be plowed like a field, Jerusalem shall become heaps of ruins, and the mountain of the temple like the bare hills of the forest. 19 Did Hezekiah king of Judah and all Judah ever put him to death? Did he not fear the Lord and seek the Lords favor? And the Lord repented concerning the doom which He had pronounced against them. But we are doing great evil against ourselves.
60. Jer 42:10 If you will still remain in this land, then I will build you and not pull you down, and I will plant you and not pluck you up. For I repent concerning the disaster that I have brought upon you.
61. Ezek 24:14 I, the Lord, have spoken it; It shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not hold back, Nor will I spare, Nor will I repent; According to your ways And according to your deeds They will judge you, Says the Lord God.
62. Joel 2:11-14 The Lord gives voice before His army, For His camp is very great; For strong is the One who executes His word. For the day of the Lord is great and very terrible; Who can endure it? 12 Now, therefore, says the Lord, Turn to Me with all your heart, With fasting, with weeping, and with mourning. 13 So rend your heart, and not your garments; Return to the Lord your God, For He is gracious and merciful, Slow to anger, and of great kindness; And He repents from doing harm. 14 Who knows if He will turn and repent, And leave a blessing behind Him - A grain offering and a drink offering For the Lord your God?
63. Amos 7:1-6 Thus the Lord God showed me: Behold, He formed locust swarms at the beginning of the late crop; indeed it was the late crop after the king's mowings. 2 And so it was, when they had finished eating the grass of the land, that I said: O Lord God, forgive, I pray! Oh, that Jacob may stand, For he is small! 3 So the Lord repented concerning this. It shall not be, said the Lord. 4 Thus the Lord God showed me: Behold, the Lord God called for conflict by fire, and it consumed the great deep and devoured the territory. 5 Then I said: O Lord God, cease, I pray! Oh, that Jacob may stand, For he is small! 6 So the Lord repented concerning this. This also shall not be, said the Lord God.
64. Jonah 3:6-4:2 Then word came to the king of Nineveh; and he arose from his throne and laid aside his robe, covered himself with sackcloth and sat in ashes. 7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published throughout Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; do not let them eat, or drink water. 8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to God; yes, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands. 9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish? 10 Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it. 4:1 But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he became angry. 2 So he prayed to the Lord, and said, Ah, Lord, was not this what I said when I was still in my country? Therefore I fled previously to Tarshish; for I know that You are a gracious and merciful God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, One who repents from doing harm.
65. Zec 8:14,15 For thus says the Lord of hosts: Just as I determined to punish you when your fathers provoked Me to wrath, says the Lord of hosts, and I would not repent, 15 so again in these days I am determined to do good to Jerusalem and to the house of Judah.
66. From these passages it seems even clearer that the word means a change of mind or heart. However, God changes His mind because of mercy, compassion, or righteous judgment. The Bible shows God is immutable, unchanging, in His character, love, mercy, but He is not immutable in the sense of the theologians who have based their theology on the Greek philosophy which states that God is outside of time.
67. Plato, himself, explained it this way in, A dialogue between Socrates and Adeimantus."Is it not true that to be altered and moved by something else happens least to things that are in the best condition . . . that the healthiest and strongest is least altered. . . . would be least disturbed and altered by any external affection . . . least liable to be changed by time and other influences. . . It is universally true then, that that which is in the best state . . . admits least alteration by something else. . . Then does he (God) change himself for the better and to something fairer, or for the worse and to something uglier than himself? It must necessarily . . . be for the worse if he is changed . . . the gods themselves are incapable of change. . . . Then God is altogether simple and true in deed and word, and neither changes himself . . "
68. Now, again, if God didn't mean that He repented, what did He mean? We have seen, God used the word nacham for His own actions about thirty times. Every time it is used of God, it is in a context of changing His mind or purpose in punishing or rewarding a person or group of people. The use of this word was so appalling to Augustine, the creator of what we call Calvinism, that he wrote about it in his book, On the Morals of the Catholic Church. Augustine explained away the doctrines of the Old Testament that he thought were so absurd. He strongly disagreed with the literal interpretation of the Old Testament. Here is what he wrote about our twenty-six passages:
69. We do not worship a God who repents, or is envious, or needy . . . . These and such like are the silly notions . . . the fancies of old women or of children . . . and . . . those by whom these passages are literally understood. . . . And should any one suppose that anything in God's substance or nature can suffer change or conversion, he will be held guilty of wild profanity. [Oats, W.J., "On the Morals of the Catholic Church," Basic Writings of Saint Augustine, New York: Random House Publishers, 1948, p. 327.]
70. With this philosophical bias of Plato and Augustine in mind, I want to respond to some of the passages that are used to answer "the silly notions . . . the fancies of old women or of children . . . and . . . those by whom these passages are literally understood."; the passages that Calvinists, including UR's say show God doesn't change at all.
71. In Num 23:19 it says "God is not a man, that He should lie, nor a son of man that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?" What does this mean? Does this contradict the many portions of Scripture that say God does repent? When Calvinists turn here instead of answering the question about God repenting in Genesis 6:5-7, why don't they think the Numbers passage is an anthropomorphism as well? In order to find out what is going on here, let's look at the context.
72. In Num 22, Balak, the king of the Moabites, was afraid when he saw what Israel had done to the Amorites, 1-4. So he sent messengers to his homeland in Mesopotamia to have the soothsayer, Balaam, come and curse Israel. [A soothsayer, not prophet or seer, is forbidden for Israel in Deu 18:10,12 "There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, . . . 12 For all who do these things are an abomination to the Lord". Num 24:1 "Now when Balaam saw that it pleased the LORD to bless Israel, he did not go as at other times, to seek to use sorcery"]
73. Num 22:5-11 But God told Balaam not to go, 12-14. So King Balak tried again, promising great honor to Balaam, 15-17. Then Balaam said he could not go "beyond the word of the LORD my God". I might add that his heart was not really sincere in following Yahweh, for 2 Peter 2:15,16 says "They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet." And Jude 11 says, "Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah." He then told them to stick around and he'd see what the LORD would say to him, 18,19. God let Balaam go to Balak, but He ordered him to say only what He told him. According to Keil & Delitzsch, "From the use of the participle instead of the imperfect, with which it is not interchangeable, it is evident, on the one hand, that the anger of God was not excited by the fact that Balaam went with the elders of Moab, but by his behaviour. Further, . . . that the occurrence which followed did not take place at the commencement, but rather towards the close of the journey. As it was a longing for wages and honour that had induced the soothsayer to undertake the journey, the nearer he came to his destination, we can see, the more his mind was on the money and honors . . . that he was in danger of casting to the winds the condition which had been imposed upon him by God."
74. That's why "the Angel of Yahweh took His stand in the way as an adversary against him" (v. 22). After Balaam's encounter, verse 35 says, "Then the Angel of the LORD said to Balaam, Go with the men, but only the word that I speak to you, that you shall speak." So King Balak welcomed Balaam, but Balaam had gotten the message. He told the king he could only speak what God put in his mouth 36-39.
75. So Balak offered oxen and sheep to Yahweh, to have God look favorable on him, that is, to bribe Him. So he took Balaam up "to the high places of Baal" for a better view, so he could see the Israelites to better curse them. 40-41 Balaam also got into the act by telling him to "build seven altars for me here". Balaam wanted to bribe Yahweh also for he said, "perhaps the LORD will come to meet me". Yahweh did, 23:1-6 but He caused Balaam to bless Israel 7-10. Balak got angry, 11-13. Then, in verses 14-18 it says, "So he brought him to the field of Zophim, to the top of Pisgah, and built seven altars, and offered a bull and a ram on each altar 15 And he said to Balak, Stand here by your burnt offering while I meet the LORD over there 16 Then the LORD met Balaam, and put a word in his mouth, and said, Go back to Balak, and thus you shall speak 17 So he came to him, and there he was, standing by his burnt offering, and the princes of Moab were with him And Balak said to him, What has the LORD spoken? 18 Then he took up his oracle and said: Rise up, Balak, and hear! Listen to me, son of Zippor!"
76. Now we must realize this is the third time Balak has offered sacrifices to Yahweh, trying to bribe Him to curse Israel. God has gotten fed up with this stuff. Your trying to bribe me? Don't you know who I am? Well, let's read what God put in Balaam's mouth. He caused Balaam to prophesy that wonderful statement, Numbers 23:19,20. "God is not a man, that He should lie, nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good? 20 Behold, I have received a command to bless; He has blessed, and I cannot reverse it."
77. From this, we can see that God would not lie. He has already blessed Israel twice. Now, just because they sacrifice all these sacrifices, is that going to change God? He is not like a man who can be bribed. Every man may have his price, but our wonderful God isn't swayed by bribes, and in certain cases, He won't repent.
78. Another example which shows He wouldn't repent is in 1 Sa 15. In this situation, God told King Saul to attack the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when Israel came up from Egypt. He told him in verse 3, to . . . utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.
79. Saul did what God said. He attacked the Amalekites, but he also disobeyed God. Here's what he did in verses 8 and 9: "He also took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword. 9 But Saul and the people spared Agag and the best of the sheep, the oxen, the fatlings, the lambs, and all that was good, and were unwilling to utterly destroy them. But everything despised and worthless, that they utterly destroyed."
80. So, what did God do? He repented, was sorry, changed His mind in regard to King Saul. Verse 11 says, "I repent that I have set up Saul as king, for he has turned back from following Me, and has not performed My commandments."
81. The next day Samuel went to Saul. When Saul saw him, he said in verse 13-29: "Blessed are you of the LORD! I have performed the commandment of the LORD." But Samuel got right to the point. 14 "But Samuel said, 'What then is this bleating of the sheep in my ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear?' 15 And Saul said, 'They have brought them from the Amalekites; for the people spared the best of the sheep and the oxen, to sacrifice to the LORD your God; and the rest we have utterly destroyed.' 16 Then Samuel said to Saul, 'Be quiet! And I will tell you what the LORD said to me last night.' And he said to him, 'Speak on.' 17 So Samuel said, 18 'Now the LORD sent you on a mission, and said, "Go, and utterly destroy the sinners, the Amalekites, and fight against them until they are consumed." 19 Why then did you not obey the voice of the LORD? Why did you swoop down on the spoil, and do evil in the sight of the LORD?' 20 And Saul said to Samuel, 'But I have obeyed the voice of the LORD, and gone on the mission on which the LORD sent me, and brought back Agag king of Amalek; I have utterly destroyed the Amalekites. 21 But the people took of the plunder, sheep and oxen, the best of the things which should have been utterly destroyed, to sacrifice to the LORD your God in Gilgal.' 22 Then Samuel said: 'Has the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice and to heed than the fat of rams. 23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He also has rejected you from being king.' 24 Then Saul said to Samuel, 'I have sinned, for I have transgressed the commandment of the LORD and your words, because I feared the people and obeyed their voice. 25 Now therefore, please pardon my sin, and return with me, that I may worship the LORD.' 26 But Samuel said to Saul, 'I will not return with you, for you have rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD has rejected you from being king over Israel.' 27 And as Samuel turned around to go away, Saul seized the edge of his robe, and it tore. 28 So Samuel said to him, 'The LORD has torn the kingdom of Israel from you today, and has given it to a neighbor of yours, who is better than you. 29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent. For He is not a man, that He should repent.'"
82. God would not repent of this specific statement. Why? Verse 23 again, "Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He also has rejected you from being king." God would not repent of this, probably because Saul was not truly repentant. Then verse 35 repeats God's repentance in making Saul king to begin with, 35 "And Samuel went no more to see Saul until the day of his death. Nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul, and the LORD repented that He had made Saul king over Israel."
83. Psalm 110:4 is another passage which says God would not repent. "The Lord has sworn and will not repent. You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek." When God swears, it is unchangeable just as His counsel is. That's why the two are combined in Hebrews 6:17,18, "Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath, 18 that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we might have strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us."
84. Therefore, we can see that Christ's priesthood was absolute. Nothing could change that. God does not repent of a sworn oath.
85. I hope this helps you as you deal with Universal Reconciliation.
86. In Christ,
87. Bob Hill
Question:
What you think about annihilation?
- Bob,
- Read this and tell me what you think about it http://www.tentmaker.org/books/TheBibleHell.html.
Answer:
(click here to see the answer)
1. Dear Chris,
2. This is a site of those who believe in conditional mortality or annihilation. They are, generally, good theologians with a great respect for the Word of God. I disagree with them, but I have had to wrestle with this material as well as the UR stuff. After much study, I have found that the Greek word ajpovllumi found in Mat 10:28 is the key to the problem: And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
3. The Bible mentions a number of places where the departed dead go. It mentions heaven, paradise, Sheol, the grave, the pit, Hades, Abraham's bosom, Gehenna, the abyss, the lake of fire, and Tartarus. What do these names mean? When we examine where the unrighteous dead go after they die, of course we aren't concerned about heaven. I think your questions would include, does a sinner go to hell, and how long are they there?
4. I think we can make these conclusions when we read the Scriptures thoroughly. In the Old Testament, Sheol is the realm of the dead (Pro 7:27). It is deep in the earth (Deu 32:22). At the foundations of the mountains (Job 11:8; Ps 139:8). Higher than heaven contrasted with deeper than Sheol (Amos 9:2). Digging down to Sheol contrasted with climbing to heaven. One part is specifically designated as lower Sheol.
5. All men in general (Job 7:9; Ps 89:48), the wicked (Num 16:30-33; Job 24:19; Ps 9:17; 31:17), and the righteous (Gen 37:35) go to Sheol in the Old Testament. There is very little description of Sheol. To the anguished it represents relief (Job 14:13). To the ancients, it was completely cut off from the existence of the living on earth. It represented the cessation of his earthly life with all of its accomplishments for the individual (Ecc 9:10; Ps 6:5; Isa 38:18). Conscious existence in Sheol is portrayed in Isa 14:9-15 and Eze 31:15-17; 32:21, although it is brought out clearly first in Lk 16.
6. Sheol is portrayed as a sort of fortress with bars, gates, chambers, and keys (Job 17:16; Ps 18:5; Pro 7:27; Jon 2:2). An unidentified group of beings called the r'phaeem also exist in Sheol (Pro 9:18; Isa 14:9). Sheol is in some way, perhaps even physically, connected with Abaddon, the abyss of the New Testament. (Job 26:6; Pro 15:11; 27:20; Rev 9:11). Although man has no power to deliver himself from Sheol, Yahweh is able (Isa 2:6; Ps 16:10; 30:3; 49:15; Hos 13:14).
7. Before Christ died for our sins, the believers who had died went to a good part of what is called Hades. We have further evidence from Scripture that Christ visited two places that we can call Sheol/Hell/Hades. The most important one from our viewpoint is found in Eph 4:8-10: Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men." 9 Now this, "He ascended" - what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things. From this passage, we see that Christ first descended into the lower parts of the earth to take all the believers to heaven since their sins had been paid for by Christ's death on the cross. This is when Paradise was transferred to heaven.
8. This is why Paul could write that he had been caught up into Paradise. 2 Co 12:2-4 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago -- whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows -- such a one was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a man -- whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows 4 how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
9. Paradise became the name for the place of bliss. In the book of Revelation, it seems to be on the new earth, in Rev 2:7: He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.
10. When a sinner dies he goes to Hades until the great white throne judgment. Then they are cast into the lake of fire. I believe that when we die, now, we will be in heaven until the rapture. Then we will be with the Lord forever. The following passages are a complete concordance of the Greek word. (Mat. 11:23; 16:18; Lk 10:15; 16:23; Act 2:27,31; Rev 1:18; 6:8; 20:13,14. This is my conclusion after I studied the above Scripture passages on Hades thoroughly: Hades is talked about consistently in a negative way. The soul went to Hades while the flesh would see corruption (Act 2:27,31). According to Christ's account of Hades in Lk 16, the rich man's body was buried, but he went to Hades (23). Abraham, Lazarus, and the rich man, all were conscious. The rich man was tormented in Hades (23) because: He sinned (Deu 15:7-17; Ps 112:9; Pro 19:17; Mat 5:7; Lk 12:20,21). He didn't believe God's law (29,30). In Lk 16:20-26, we find Lazarus in the good part of what is called Hades and the rich man in torment in hades/hell: Lk 16:20-26 "But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, "Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame." 25 But Abraham said, "Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us."
11. Again, Lazarus was in bliss with Abraham and the rich man was in a place of torment. There was an impassable gulf between these two places. Some who had been in Hades before Christ died and was resurrected were in a good part of Hades until His resurrection.
12. Gehenna, Tartarus and the lake of fire are all words or phrases that describe what we think of as Hell. These passages are a complete concordance of the word, Gehenna. Mat 5:22,29,30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15,33; Mk 9:43,45,47; Lk 12:5; Jam 3:6.
13. The following passages are a complete concordance of the word, abyss. Lk 8:31; Ro 10:7 (Deu 30:13); Rev 9:1,2,11; 11:7; 17:8; 20:1,3.
14. The other place where Christ went, I believe, was Tartarus. It is the place that God put the angels who were involved with the daughters of men at the time before the flood in Genesis 6. It seems to be the place where they were kept, and will be kept until the judgment. Then, they will be cast into the lake of fire. Only the verb is used in the New Testament. 2 Pe 2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell (Greek tartarosas) and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment.
15. The BGD Greek Lexicon explains Tartarus this way. "Tartarus, thought of by the Greeks as a subterranean place lower than Hades where divine punishment was meted out, was so regarded in Jewish apocalyptic as well." Durant records (V.2, p.99), "Hesiod's mythology . . . . Out of the mating of . . . Uranus and Ge . . . came a race of Titans . . . . Uranus liked them not, and condemned them to gloomy Tartarus. . . . The Titans captured Olympus . . . (But when Zeus grew up, he) plunged the Titans back into the bowels of the earth."
16. I believe we get one more bit of information about these "Titans" in 1 Pe 3:18-20 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and proclaimed (I think He proclaimed victory over them. They had tried to contaminate the human race so the Messiah would not be born.) to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah (back in Genesis 6.), while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
17. The lake of fire is what I would call Hell, if I used that term. It is used in Rev 14:10,11; 19:20; 20:10,14,15; 21:8. Fire used with other words and phrases: Gehenna (Mat 5:22; 18:9); Wailing and gnashing of teeth (Mat 13:37-42,47-50); Eternal (Mat 18:8; 25:41-46; Jud 7); Not quenched (Mk 9:43-48); Indignation (Heb. 10:27) and tormented (Rev. 14:10,11).
18. We have three places where the Bible mentions paradise. The first one relates what Christ said to the thief on the cross who believed. Lk 23:43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise." Before Christ died for our sins, the believers who had died went to a good part of what is called [Hebrew] Sheol, in the O. T. and [Greek] Hades in the N. T. I believe the good part was called paradise; and that is where Christ and the thief went.
19. After you look at this material, I will be glad to answer any other questions you may have.
20. In Christ,
21. Bob Hill
Question:
Why do the Jews not believe Jesus is the Messiah?
- Dear Bob,
- Why do Jews not believe that Jesus is the Messiah? It is confusing how they believe in the Old Testament, but refuse to accept the New Testament. Hope you can help. I asked my youth pastor, but he didn't know. So, maybe you will.
- Have a great day!
- In His Love,
- Sarah Foster (17 years old) Mountainview Christian Church, Gresham, Oregon
Answer:
(click here to see the answer)
1. Dear Sarah,
2. I know many Jews who have become Christians by believing that Jesus Christ, indeed, did die for them. We could ask the same question about Gentiles. Why does a majority of Gentiles around the world refuse to accept, not only the New Testament, but the whole Bible? Romans 1:18-32 tells us: �For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man -- and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.�
3. I have a book on The Resurrection of Jesus, A Jewish Perspective by a Jewish scholar, Pinchas Lapide. He believes and makes a strong defense of the resurrection of our Lord, but he does not believe that Jesus Christ died for him. Why not? We do know that God�s word says in Jer 17:9-10, �The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; Who can know it? 10 I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings.�
4. That, along with Romans 1 & 2 tell the whole story.
5. In Christ,
6. Bob
Question: Do you accept the 66 book Bible?
- From: keith mason
- Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 6:54 PM
- Subject: Do you accept the 66 book Bible?
- Dear Bob,
- thanks for the reply. I defiantly agree with you
- that the bread and wine are just symbols, it just
- seems to make the most sense. When debating these
- catholics i find it really hard to convey why i think
- that, maybe it is because i am trying to sift through
- all the hundreds of years of tradition that they have
- behind them. How would you defend your position?
- Also, do you accept the 66 book Bible? If so why?
- Didn't the catholic church pick the books of the Bible anyway?
Answer - Click here to view the answer
1. Keith,
2. I accept the 66 book Bible because the Jews did not accept the Greek books,
3. Apocrypha, of the Catholic Bible. God formed the canon in Israel. He also
4. formed the New Testament canon by using the early church, not the RC church.
5. There are volumes of books written on this subject. Geisler, Montgomery and
6. Pache are recent men who have written excellent books on the subject. On the
7. other hand, don't even get in a hassle over them. For argument's sake,
8. accept them. So what? Spend your time on better studies. Study what you know
9. is the Word of God.
10. Bob
Question: Does the bread and wine in communion become the actual flesh and blood of Jesus Christ?
- Does the wine become His actual blood?
- From: keith mason [mailto:the86k@yahoo.com]
- Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 9:50 PM
- Subject: the euchrist
- Dear Bob,
- this will be the first time i have asked a question to "biblical
- answers" and i am not o familiar with a lot of the topics you deal with so
- please bear with me. Recently I have been studying with some catholics the
- bible and various doctrines. I have enjoyed learning about all the history
- behind the church and just more about them. I have been trying to look at
- all of their ideas objectively and to be honest they have really shaken a
- lot of the foundations I have in my biblical thinking. To get to the point I
- would like to ask your opinion on the doctrine of the Eucharist. This is
- probably the most recent issue i have been struggling with. I feel that I am
- some what biased because of my studying dispensational theology and really
- holding dear to it. But at the same time I want to be open to truth. so to
- cap this letter off; does the bread in communion become the actual flesh of
- Jesus Christ? Does the wine become His actual blood?
- A Brother In Jesus Christ
- Keith Mason

Answer - Click here to view the answer
1. Dear Keith,
2. First let us look at the best passage that God inspired about the Lord's
3. Supper. It is 1 Co 11:23-34 For I received from the Lord that which I also
4. delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was
5. betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said,
6. "Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance
7. of Me." 25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying,
8. "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink
9. it, in remembrance of Me." 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink
10. this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till He comes. 27 Therefore whoever
11. eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be
12. guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself,
13. and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and
14. drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not
15. discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among
16. you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be
17. judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may
18. not be condemned with the world. 33 Therefore, my brethren, when you come
19. together to eat, wait for one another. 34 But if anyone is hungry, let him
20. eat at home, lest you come together for judgment. And the rest I will set in
21. order when I come.
22. Notice, God inspired Paul to call it bread and cup throughout this passage.
23. The bread represented Christ's body given for us on the cross. The cup was a
24. reminder of Christ's blood which was shed for us. Those who sinned against
25. the body of Christ were those who despised a poorer member by being greedy
26. and eating the food they brought to the love feast without sharing it. This
27. was condemned by Paul as no love feast at all. Only by recognizing the
28. complete unity of the body of Christ and acting in a Christ like manner
29. could they discern the needs of their brothers and sisters in Christ and
30. share. If their hunger were too great to wait, they should eat at home. The
31. Lord's Supper was a time edifying the body of Christ.
32. The Catholics believe the bread a wine are changed into the body and blood
33. of Christ when the host is presented before God. Because the Lutherans broke
34. away from Catholicism, they believe that the body and blood of Christ is
35. present in the bread and wine but doesn't change into it. I believe it just
36. represents it. Catholics believe the sacraments give grace to the
37. recipients. I believe the Bible shows us we are saved by God's grace, and
38. nothing can add to our salvation. Catholics believe you can lose your
39. salvation.
40. In Christ,
Question: How do you speak with Roman Catholics concerning their beliefs about Mary?
- Bob,
- How do you speak with Roman Catholics concerning their beliefs about Mary's
- perpetual virginity, assumption into heaven, being without original sin, and
- giving her co-redemptrix status or calling her the 4th person of the
- Godhead?
- Are they correct in their ideas about her?
- Jan
Answer - Click here to view the answer
1. Janet,
2. The Catholics have an elaborate set of teachings on Mary the mother of
3. Jesus. Most of it is based on traditions derived from absorbing other
4. religions into theirs. They have been great at adopting unbiblical ideas
5. into their religion to make the groups of people they have included
6. comfortable with the Catholic religion. From their viewpoint, there's
7. nothing wrong with doing that. They believe Scripture and church tradition
8. are equally important in determining their church's doctrine. Since we
9. believe the Bible is the verbally inspired word of God, any Catholic
10. doctrine which is not in accord with the Bible should be rejected.
11. The perpetual virginity of Mary is a doctrine with absolutely no scriptural
12. basis. This was promulgated by the Catholic church to protect the character
13. of Mary. From their perspective, the queen of heaven must be without sin in
14. order to bear her son. There also is no biblical evidence that Mary was
15. without sin. Mary confesses that she had need of her son's salvation when
16. she said Christ was her Savior in Luke 1:46-48 "And Mary said: "My soul
17. magnifies the Lord, 47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. 48 For
18. He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant; For behold, henceforth
19. all generations will call me blessed." Mary's perpetual virginity is also
20. disproved by the references to Jesus' brothers and sisters. Luke 8:19-21
21. "Then His mother and brothers came to Him, and could not approach Him
22. because of the crowd. 20 And it was told Him by some, who said, 'Your mother
23. and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You.' 21 But He
24. answered and said to them, 'My mother and My brothers are these who hear the
25. word of God and do it.'"
26. As far as Mary's assumption into heaven is concerned, there is absolutely no
27. Scripture or other evidence on a supposed assumption of Mary into heaven.
28. This is not even an old doctrine of the Catholic church. The assumption of
29. Mary wasn't a doctrine Catholics had to adhere to until the 19th century.
30. That's sure a rather late time to be espousing a new doctrine like that with
31. no biblical basis.
32. The other issues you mention also have no evidence from God's word.
33. In Christ, our Redeemer,
34. Bob
Question: Should we join the Mormon Church?
- "Robert Noe'"
- Sat, 25 Mar 2000 14:03
- Subject: The Mormon church.
- Hi Bob,
- My name is Robert, and my family and I are currently investigating the Mormon Church, and we are unsure whether to join.
- Can you please tell me anything that you know regarding this Church? This Church seems nice, but we definetly would not want to go in a direction that would be against God or Jesus. This is so important to me, that I can't begin to express my concern. Can you please answer soon.
- Thank You very much!
- Robert Noe'
Answer: (click here to view the answer)
1. Dear Bob,
2. Although most of the Mormons I know are fine people, the religion is one of the worst cults in the world. They believe that God was once like us, and we, if we were good Mormons, can progress to where we will be like God is now. It is also a very works oriented religion. There are many books and booklets that have been written against the Mormon church. I would go to your local bookstore, or you could order one from www.biblediscount.com.
3. One of the things they try to persuade a person to believe is that the book of Mormon is Holy Scripture and takes precedence of the Bible. The Mormons say that the passage in Ezekiel 37:15-19 shows that �Ancient Prophecy has been literally fulfilled in the coming forth of the Book of Mormon.�
4. Eze 37:15-19 Again the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 16 �As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: �For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.� Then take another stick and write on it, �For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.� 17 �Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand. 18 �And when the children of your people speak to you, saying, �Will you not show us what you mean by these?� � 19 �say to them, �Thus says the Lord God: �Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.
5. One of the Mormon 12 apostles, Talmadge, wrote a book, The Articles of Faith, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Salt Lake City, Utah, 1971. It was first published in 1890. On pages 276,277, he explained the Ezekiel passage. He wrote: �Ezekiel saw in vision the coming together of the stick of Judah, and the stick of Joseph, signifying the Bible and the Book of Mormon. . . . �The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying, Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.�
6. �When we call to mind the ancient custom in the making of books��that of writing on long strips of parchment and rolling the same on rods or sticks, the use of the word �stick� as equivalent to �book� in the passage becomes apparent. At the time of this utterance, the Israelites had divided into two nations known as the kingdom of Judah and that of Israel, or Ephraim. Plainly the separate records of Judah and Joseph are here referred to. Now, as we have seen, the Nephite nation comprised the descendants of Lehi who belonged to the tribe of Manasseh, of Ishmael who was an Ephraimite, and of Zoram whose tribal relation is not definitely stated. The Nephites were then of the tribes of Joseph; and their record or �stick� is as truly represented by the Book of Mormon as is the �stick� of Judah by the Bible.
7. �That the bringing forth of the record of Joseph or Ephraim was to be accomplished through the direct power of God is evident from the Lord�s exposition of the vision of Ezekiel, wherein He says: �Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph . . . and will put them with him, even the stick of Judah.� That this union of the two records was to be a characteristic of the latter days is evident from the prediction of an event which was to follow immediately, viz., the gathering of the tribes from the nations among which they had been dispersed. Comparison with other prophecies relating to the gathering will conclusively prove that the great event was predicted to take place in the latter times, preparatory to the second coming of Christ.�
8. Bob, I really want you to consider this. Is there any basis for the conclusion he made here? What does Ezekiel 37 really refer to? We�re going to have to look at the whole biblical context and other passages in Ezekiel to find out. Ezekiel uses a different word for roll or scroll in 2:9;3:1,2&3. Further, he used the normal word for wood or stick in chapter 37. It is clear that he wrote, �For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions� on the one stick, and, �For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions� on the other stick. No scripture is written on the stick.
9. Next, we must see that many Old Testament passages refer to Israel and her obstinacy. One of the most enlightening is in Ezekiel 34:20-31: �Therefore thus says the Lord GOD to them: �Behold, I Myself will judge between the fat and the lean sheep. 21 Because you have pushed with side and shoulder, butted all the weak ones with your horns, and scattered them abroad, 22 therefore I will save My flock, and they shall no longer be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep. 23 I will establish one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them; My servant David. He shall feed them and be their shepherd. 24 And I, the LORD, will be their God, and My servant David a prince among them; I, the LORD, have spoken. . . . 30 Thus they shall know that I, the LORD their God, am with them, and they, the house of Israel, are My people,� says the Lord GOD. 31 �You are My flock, the flock of My pasture; you are men, and I am your God,� says the Lord GOD.�
10. According to Zechariah 13:8,9, the unbelievers will be purged out: �And it shall come to pass in all the land,� says the LORD, �that two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, but one-third shall be left in it: 9 I will bring the one-third through the fire, will refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, and I will answer them. I will say, �This is My people�; and each one will say, �The LORD is my God.��
11. This unification of the little flock with the other sheep to become a great united flock is a recurring theme in the Old Testament. We have already seen it in Ezekiel 34:23,30,32, and we will see it again in our main passage, Ezekiel 37:19-24. Christ pointed this out in the �other sheep� statement in John 10:11-18: �I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. 12 But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. 13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. 17 Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.�
12. These �other sheep� are the circumcision believers, the sheep of the dispersion. Peter, James, and John wrote to them (Jam 1:1; 1 Pe 1:1; Rev 1:9). That the �other sheep� refers to the dispersion is established from Old Testament material. In Jeremiah 50:4-7,17-19, it says: �In those days and in that time, says the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together; with continual weeping they shall come and seek the LORD their God. 5 They shall ask the way to Zion, with their faces toward it, saying, Come and let us join ourselves to the LORD In a perpetual covenant that will not be forgotten. 6 My people have been lost sheep. Their shepherds have led them astray; they have turned them away on the mountains. They have gone from mountain to hill; They have forgotten their resting place. 7 All who found them have devoured them; and their adversaries said, We have not offended, because they have sinned against the LORD, the habitation of justice, The LORD, the hope of their fathers. 17 Israel is like scattered sheep. The lions have driven him away. First the king of Assyria devoured him; Now at last this Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon has broken his bones. 18 Therefore thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: Behold, I will punish the king of Babylon and his land as I have punished the king of Assyria. 19 But I will bring back Israel to his home. And he shall feed on Carmel and Bashan; His soul shall be satisfied on Mount Ephraim and Gilead.�
13. The more we read, the easier it is for us to see that these other sheep are Israel of the dispersion. In Deuteronomy 30:1-5 it says, �Now it shall come to pass, when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind among all the nations where the LORD your God drives you, 2 and you return to the LORD your God and obey His voice, according to all that I command you today, you and your children, with all your heart and with all your soul, 3 that the LORD your God will bring you back from captivity, and have compassion on you, and gather you again from all the nations where the LORD your God has scattered you. 4 If any of you are driven out to the farthest parts under heaven, from there the LORD your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you. 5 Then the LORD your God will bring you to the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it. He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers.�
14. In Jeremiah 31:7-12 it says, �For thus says the LORD: �Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations; Proclaim, give praise, and say, �O LORD, save Your people, the remnant of Israel!� 8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the ends of the earth, among them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and the one who labors with child, together; a great throng shall return there. 9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications I will lead them. I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters, in a straight way in which they shall not stumble; For I am a Father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn. 10 �Hear the word of the LORD, O nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, �He who scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him as a shepherd does his flock.� 11 For the LORD has redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of one stronger than he. 12 Therefore they shall come and sing in the height of Zion, streaming to the goodness of the LORD; For wheat and new wine and oil, for the young of the flock and the herd; Their souls shall be like a well-watered garden, and they shall sorrow no more at all.�
15. It�s important for us to realize that when Christ was on earth, His ministry was not to us Gentiles. His ministry at that time was only to Israel. Christ showed this in Matthew 10:5,6 when it said, �These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.� He states it even more explicitly in Matthew 15:24, �But He answered and said, I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.� Even that wicked high priest, Caiaphas was moved into the picture by God when he said in John 11:51-52, �You know nothing at all, 50 nor do you consider that it is expedient for us that one man should die for the people [Israel], and not that the whole nation [Israel] should perish. 51 Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, 52 and not for that [the] nation only, but also that He would gather together in [into] one the children of God [Israel] who were scattered abroad. Eze 20:34, 41; 28:25; 36:19, and Joel 3:2 are more references.
16. Now, as we read portions in Ezekiel 37:15-28, notice the passages that I will emphasize. These are the passages which our Lord was thinking of when He made the �other sheep� statement in John 10:16.
17. Ezekiel 37:15-28 Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 16 as for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: For Judah [Judah and Benjamin] and for the children of Israel, his companions. Then take another stick and write on it, for Joseph, the stick of Ephraim [The ten tribes], and for all the house of Israel, his companions. 17 Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand. 18 And when the children of your people speak to you, saying, Will you not show us what you mean by these?; 19 say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand. 20 And the sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes. 21 Then say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land [Of course, these will only be believers.], on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God. 24 David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd [Jesus Christ]; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. 25 Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children�s children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever. [This is in connection with the promised Davidic kingdom which was offered in Acts 3:19-26] Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them, and it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary in their midst forevermore. 27 My tabernacle also shall be with them; indeed I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 28 The nations also will know that I, the LORD, sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary [The New Jerusalem of Revelation 21] is in their midst forevermore.
18. Again, in Micah 2:12 He says, �I will surely assemble all of you, O Jacob, I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together like sheep of the fold, Like a flock in the midst of their pasture; They shall make a loud noise because of so many people.� Christ, the Great Shepherd, will gather the other sheep from among the nations and make His sheep one flock in fulfillment of these prophecies.
19. Jeremiah 23:1-8 is the most comprehensive of them all. �Woe to the shepherds who destroy and scatter the sheep of My pasture! says the LORD. 2 Therefore thus says the LORD God of Israel against the shepherds who feed My people: You have scattered My flock, driven them away, and not attended to them. Behold, I will attend to you for the evil of your doings, says the LORD. 3 But I will gather the remnant of My flock out of all countries where I have driven them, and bring them back to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase. 4 I will set up shepherds over them who will feed them; and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, nor shall they be lacking, says the LORD. 5 Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness [According to the promise of 2 Sam 7]; a King shall reign and prosper, And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth. 6 In His days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell safely; Now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7 Therefore, behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, that they shall no longer say, As the LORD lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of Egypt, 8 but, As the LORD lives who brought up and led the descendants of the house of Israel from the north country and from all the countries where I had driven them. And they shall dwell in their own land.�
20. Israel and her tribes will have a new city. It will come down from heaven for them. Christ�s undershepherds, the twelve apostles, will have their names on the foundations of the city and will sit on twelve thrones judging them. Revelation 21:12-14 shows us this wonderful sight.
21. Therefore, we must conclude that the other sheep are those of the dispersion who will believe. They are not Gentiles. They will be joined with the little flock. The one flock will be the true Israel of God. They will inherit the kingdom promised to David. They will have one Shepherd, Jesus Christ. This is not talking about the Bible and the book of Mormon at all.
22. Bob, there are many other problems with this organization�s theology, but this is the important basis for what they believe. Let me know if you have any other questions.
23. In Christ,
24. Bob Hill
Question:...and I need some help with the word proskuneo-in the NT. means worship...
- Name: Ed Simmons
- Question:
- I have been witnessing to a Jehovah Witness, and I need some help with the word proskuneo-in the NT. means worship,I asked him wht did the watchtower translate this word as worship when it talked about God, but when it talked about Jesus they uesd Obeisance? Well he gave me a two page reason why , and it's like you probably know a bunch of very bad understanding to say the lest. Can you maybe give me some help?
Answer: (click here to view the answer)
1. Ed,
2. Even the Jehovah�s Witnesses translated it worship in Hebrews 1:6. I don�t know if you have the resources to look at every place proskunevw is used in the NT, but I�ve searched the word and want to give you that info along with the following, which is the complete entry from the Bauer, Gingrich, and Danker, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979. The Greek font is GraecaII.
3. proskunevw impf. prosekuvnoun; fut. proskunhvsw; 1 aor. prosekuvnhsa (trag., Hdt.+; inscr., pap., LXX; En. 10, 21; Ep. Arist., Philo, Joseph., Test. 12 Patr.) used to designate the custom of prostrating oneself before a person and kissing his feet, the hem of his garment, the ground, etc.; the Persians did this in the presence of their deified king, and the Greeks before a divinity or someth. holy; (fall down and) worship, do obeisance to, prostrate oneself before, do reverence to, welcome respectfully, in Attic Gk., and later (e.g. Appian, Mithrid. 104 �489), used w. the acc. (so Mt 4:10 and Lk 4:8 [Dt 6:13 v.l.]; J 4:22a, b, 23b, 24a v.l.; Rv 9:20.�Gen 37:9; Ex 11:8; Judg 7:15 A; Ep. Arist. 137; 138; Philo; Jos., C. Ap. 1, 239, Ant. 2, 13; 7, 250); beside it the Koine uses the dat. (Phryn. p. 463 L.; JWittmann, Sprachl. Untersuchungen zu Cosmas Indicopl., Diss. Munich �13, 16; KWolf, Studien z. Sprache des Malalas II, Diss. Munich �12, 34; Bl-D. �151, 2; Rob. 455; 476f); the LXX and our lit. prefer the dat. (s. also Ep. Arist. 135; Jos., Ant. 6, 55.�6, 154 pr. tw`/ qew`/ immediately after to;n qeo;n pr.). This reverence or worship is paid
4. 1. to human beings who, however, are to be recognized by this act as belonging to a superhuman realm (Appian, Mithrid. 104 �489: Pompey; Galen, Protr. 5 p. 12, 2ff John: Socrates, Homer, Hippocrates, Plato): to a king (so Hdt.+; cf. 2 Km 18:28; 24:20; 3 Km 1:16, 53. On proskynesis in the Hellenistic ruler cults s. LRTaylor, JHS 47, �27, 53ff, The Divinity of the Rom. Emperor �31, esp. 256-66; against her WWTarn, Alexander the Great II, �50, 347-73) oJ dou`lo" prosekuvnei aujtw`/ Mt 18:26 (of a female slave toward her kuvrio" PGiess. 17, 11f=Wilcken, Chrest. 481; cf. Jos., Ant. 2, 11); to Peter fr. Cornelius Ac 10:25 (cf. Apollonius [c. 197 ad] in Euseb., H.E. 5, 18, 6).�The church at Philadelphia proskunhvsousin ejnwvpion tw`n podw`n sou Rv 3:9 (on pr. ejnwvpiovn tino" cf. Ps 21:28; 85:9; Is 66:23).
5. 2. to God (Aeschyl.+; X., An. 3, 2, 9; 13; Pla., Rep. 3 p. 398a; Polyb. 18, 37, 10; Plut., Pomp. 14, 4; Lucian, Pisc, 21 th`/ qew`/; PGM 4, 649. Of various divinities in the inscr. [cf. Dit., Or. II 700a index VIII; Sb 7911ff]; PFlor. 332, 11 qeouv"; LXX; Philo, Gig. 54 to;n qeovn al.; Jos., Ant. 6, 154; 20, 164 al.).
6. a. of the God worshipped by monotheists (Christians, Jews, Samaritans) kuvrion to;n qeovn sou proskunhvsei" (Dt 6:13 v.l.) Mt 4:10; Lk 4:8. pr. tw`/ patriv J 4:21, 23a; cf. b. tw`/ qew`/ (Jos., Ant. 6, 55; 9, 267) Rv 19:4 (w. pivptein), 10b, 22:9. Cf. Hb 1:6 (Dt 32:43 LXX). tw`/ zw`nti Rv 4:10. tw`/ poihvsanti to;n oujranovn 14:7. pesw;n ejpi; provswpon proskunhvsei tw`/ qew`/ he will fall down and worship God (s. 2 Km 9:6) 1 Cor 14:25; cf. Rv 7:11; 11:16. ejnwvpiovn sou (s. 1, end) 15:4. Abs. (Dit., Syll.³ 1173, 2; PTebt. 416, 7; LXX) J 4:20a, b, 24a, b; Ac 8:27. Used w. ajnabaivnein (UPZ 62, 33 [161 bc] eja;n ajnabw` kajgw; proskunh`sai; Jos., Ant. 20, 164) J 12:20; Ac 24:11; cf. Rv 11:1. W. pivptein (s. Jos., Ant. 8, 119) Rv 5:14. prosekuvnhsen ejpi; to; a[kron th`" rJavbdou aujtou` he bowed in worship (or prayed) over the head of his staff Hb 11:21 (Gen 47:31).
7. b. of the idol-worship of polytheism (LXX) proskunei`n toi`" nekroi`" qeoi`" 2 Cl 3:1 or livqou" kai; xuvla ktl. 1:6 (cf. Ep. Arist. 135. . . oi|" pr.). Cf. Ac 7:43; Dg 2:5. ta; uJf� uJmw`n proskunouvmena